WHEN will the Muslims of Britain stand up to be counted? When will they declare, loud and clear, with no qualifications or quibbles about Britain’s foreign policy, that Islamic terrorism is WRONG? Most of all, when will the Muslim community…

You have a good point, though, that profiling is evidence-led. It certainly is. And has there been any evidence regarding likely attributes of people likely to try and blow up planes these days?

This will mean looking especially hard at the actions of people that appear to be of pakistani origin. These people are the ones most likely to by Muslim, and being a Muslim being a prerequist of being an Islamic Terrorist. But it does not mean picking up every person that looks like this and passing through everybody that doesn’t, but rather then deciding based on everything else if they seem like a terrorist or not.

If the principal threat is Irish terrorists then you are going to be warry about Irish people. If you where prinicpally worried about ETA you would pay more attention to people form the Basque country, or the Tamil Tigers Tamils. The current UK threat is Islamic, so you have to pay particular attention to people most likely to be Muslims.

If it’s white, British converts to Islam you want, there’s more of them than you can shake a stick at flying beneath everyone’s London bombing radar.

RELEASE THE EVIDENCE!

So approximately 5% of those arrested last week were white. And 5% Afro-Caribbean. Both converts.

Are you lot really suggesting that security people should spend as much time checking the bags of an elderly English lady, or a Scots couple with three kids, as on the bearded Asian guy ? Given that security resources are not infinite, something that Andrew Bartless seems to take no account of ?

I believe during the ‘troubles’ that a lot more Irish than English people were checked at Stranraer. Doesn’t seem too bad an idea to me.

Wow. A white convert might get through. How true. But we’re talking averages and probabilities here. As your defeatist forebears (they were arguing against spending cash on air defences) said in the early 30s ‘The bomber will always get through’ – and it’s true. All we can do is try to minimise the numbers.

I would expect that white and black converts are probably being noted down somewhere anyway – I certainly hope so. You know what they say about the zeal of the convert – they’re certainly over-represented in the exploding ranks.

Now you COULD argue that profiling will maximise the numbers, on the ground that it will so alienate the sons of the prophet that we’ll end up with more bombers. I look forward to someone explicitly arguing this :

“these guys are no more likely to be terrorists than anyone else. And if you say they ARE more likely, a small minority of them, supported by a much larger minority, them may decide to blow you up, so don’t say it”.

The best article, which I read last weekend on the London thwarted terrorist plot came from Bruce Schneier. He argues that we haven’t learned to think ahead of the terrorists and that we are only reacting to their every move…

Even if it were a short term practical measure to demand that Muslims submit themselves to searches, it would be imprudent if the aim is to defend a democratic society. Policing in such a society needs to be be representative in makeup -conducted by all the people or at least be a body that as much as possible represents all the people – and in conduct.

To single out a section of the British population for special humilation would do nothing BUT fracture and dedemocratise our society. Policing would be being done to them, to their community, rather than with their consent and collaboration.

And more, if we really need these security checks to defend our society, how selfish is it of men like Stevens to demand that it ought be other innocent people who suffer not just the inconveniences and humiliations of being targeted, but also the demonisation.

Why not just give Muslims special marks. No need for them to wear a badge, a ethno-religious code on the Identity Card would do, eh?

Earlier comments on the nature of democratic policing.

“The goal of a terrorist is to cause terror. Last week’s arrests demonstrate how real security doesn’t focus on possible terrorist tactics, but on the terrorists themselves. It’s a victory for intelligence and investigation, and a dramatic demonstration of how investments in these areas pay off.

“And if you want to know what you can do to help? Don’t be terrorized. They terrorize more of us if they kill some of us, but the dead are beside the point. If we give in to fear, the terrorists achieve their goal even if they were arrested. If we refuse to be terrorized, then they lose — even if their attacks succeed.”