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	<title>Comments on: Off the artistic roll call</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/</link>
	<description>The weblog of Brighton-based writer Justin McKeating</description>
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		<title>By: Martin Stabe &#187; The great political blog flame war</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/comment-page-1/#comment-25439</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Stabe &#187; The great political blog flame war</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/#comment-25439</guid>
		<description>[...] So do pay attention. Chicken Yoghurt and Nosemonkey are particularly good. Paul Linford is keeping score. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] So do pay attention. Chicken Yoghurt and Nosemonkey are particularly good. Paul Linford is keeping score. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Guillermo de Vargas</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/comment-page-1/#comment-25433</link>
		<dc:creator>Guillermo de Vargas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2007 07:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/#comment-25433</guid>
		<description>Honestly.

There&#039;s a stench of shite about this. I hold no brief for either side. Tim Ireland is clearly as big a tosser as Guido. Peas and pods. The reader on the Clapham bendybus reads both blogs knowing the back story that both have created for themselves. And the shit filter is adjusted accordingly.

Of course people can create unattributable aliases, some will do so for nefarious reasons, others simply because they don&#039;t fancy using their real names. Both know ultimately that they could be tracked down. This is what people do, have done and will always do - whether on blogs or in the letters page of newspapers.

There is though something vaguely amusing about Ireland&#039;s exhortions about knowing and controlling the identity of comment leavers. If it&#039;s tough policing a blog, imagine what it&#039;s like running a country. Trebles and ID cards all round.

PS Shhhh...my name&#039;s not really Guillermo, but you won&#039;t tell will you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a stench of shite about this. I hold no brief for either side. Tim Ireland is clearly as big a tosser as Guido. Peas and pods. The reader on the Clapham bendybus reads both blogs knowing the back story that both have created for themselves. And the shit filter is adjusted accordingly.</p>
<p>Of course people can create unattributable aliases, some will do so for nefarious reasons, others simply because they don&#8217;t fancy using their real names. Both know ultimately that they could be tracked down. This is what people do, have done and will always do &#8211; whether on blogs or in the letters page of newspapers.</p>
<p>There is though something vaguely amusing about Ireland&#8217;s exhortions about knowing and controlling the identity of comment leavers. If it&#8217;s tough policing a blog, imagine what it&#8217;s like running a country. Trebles and ID cards all round.</p>
<p>PS Shhhh&#8230;my name&#8217;s not really Guillermo, but you won&#8217;t tell will you?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/comment-page-1/#comment-25431</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/#comment-25431</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I have been noticing recently that bloggers are talking more about each other and their medium than (very likely) more important things.&lt;/em&gt;

Nigel, I would have thought that this is a good thing.  Tim&#039;s original post is indeed about blogging, but it is not self congratulatory about blogging.  We are debating the ethics of the medium, and trying to define and justify those ethics.  We are asking about whether there is any power in the medium, and if so, who weilds, and for what purpose.  If only the tabloids did this more often!

In any case, a bit of narcissism is good for the soul sometimes: &quot;Take a look in the mirror&quot; is the advice we give to those who wish to avoid hypocrisy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I have been noticing recently that bloggers are talking more about each other and their medium than (very likely) more important things.</em></p>
<p>Nigel, I would have thought that this is a good thing.  Tim&#8217;s original post is indeed about blogging, but it is not self congratulatory about blogging.  We are debating the ethics of the medium, and trying to define and justify those ethics.  We are asking about whether there is any power in the medium, and if so, who weilds, and for what purpose.  If only the tabloids did this more often!</p>
<p>In any case, a bit of narcissism is good for the soul sometimes: &#8220;Take a look in the mirror&#8221; is the advice we give to those who wish to avoid hypocrisy.</p>
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		<title>By: fridgemagnet</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/comment-page-1/#comment-25427</link>
		<dc:creator>fridgemagnet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/#comment-25427</guid>
		<description>Oh, *that* Guido Fawkes. Yes, I remember reading his blog a couple of times, but didn&#039;t subscribe to it, because it was toilet. In the same way that I don&#039;t subscribe to Harry&#039;s Place either. (I don&#039;t subscribe to Iain Dale&#039;s blog because I find it dull, rather than explicitly toilet, if anyone is interested.)

I must say that I have never, ever seen a reference to his GF&#039;s blog in any context apart from, well, the odd other UK political blog entry - no board posts, no serious outside media coverage apart from in the odd &quot;look what those funny bloggers are saying now&quot; piece, and certainly it&#039;s never come up in any discussion about politics I&#039;ve ever had. I&#039;m vaguely aware that it&#039;s considered &quot;important&quot; in the scheme of net things, but really, it isn&#039;t.

The last thing we bloody want is a situation like the one in the US where the political blogs just spend their time slagging off other political blogs that they don&#039;t like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, *that* Guido Fawkes. Yes, I remember reading his blog a couple of times, but didn&#8217;t subscribe to it, because it was toilet. In the same way that I don&#8217;t subscribe to Harry&#8217;s Place either. (I don&#8217;t subscribe to Iain Dale&#8217;s blog because I find it dull, rather than explicitly toilet, if anyone is interested.)</p>
<p>I must say that I have never, ever seen a reference to his GF&#8217;s blog in any context apart from, well, the odd other UK political blog entry &#8211; no board posts, no serious outside media coverage apart from in the odd &#8220;look what those funny bloggers are saying now&#8221; piece, and certainly it&#8217;s never come up in any discussion about politics I&#8217;ve ever had. I&#8217;m vaguely aware that it&#8217;s considered &#8220;important&#8221; in the scheme of net things, but really, it isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>The last thing we bloody want is a situation like the one in the US where the political blogs just spend their time slagging off other political blogs that they don&#8217;t like.</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel Sedgwick</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/comment-page-1/#comment-25424</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Sedgwick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/#comment-25424</guid>
		<description>I have been noticing recently that bloggers are talking more about each other and their medium than (very likely) more important things.

That strikes me as rather like the &quot;ad hominem&quot; compared to consideration of facts and logical argument.

Is this evidence that the blogosphere is terminally ill, or has August just arrived unexpectedly early (perhaps due to global warming)?

Best regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been noticing recently that bloggers are talking more about each other and their medium than (very likely) more important things.</p>
<p>That strikes me as rather like the &#8220;ad hominem&#8221; compared to consideration of facts and logical argument.</p>
<p>Is this evidence that the blogosphere is terminally ill, or has August just arrived unexpectedly early (perhaps due to global warming)?</p>
<p>Best regards</p>
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		<title>By: James Barbour</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/comment-page-1/#comment-25408</link>
		<dc:creator>James Barbour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/#comment-25408</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Fight!...&lt;/strong&gt;

My Google Reader is on fire this morning thanks to the flaming Tim Ireland has unleashed on Paul Staines.&#160;......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Fight!&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>My Google Reader is on fire this morning thanks to the flaming Tim Ireland has unleashed on Paul Staines.&nbsp;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lobster Blogster</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/comment-page-1/#comment-25402</link>
		<dc:creator>Lobster Blogster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 02:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/#comment-25402</guid>
		<description>Tim says: &lt;i&gt;&quot;For example; Guido being heralded by Iain Dale (in his guide) as the pinnacle of Ã¢â‚¬ËœhonestÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ blogging.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

As I recall Iain picked his friend as No.1, then his other friend (and now business partner) as No.2, then Iain&#039;s friend at No.2 picked Iain as No.3.

If you want to hail this as having some real meaning as to quality that&#039;s fine, but to me it looks about as grown up as an infant&#039;s school playground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim says: <i>&#8220;For example; Guido being heralded by Iain Dale (in his guide) as the pinnacle of Ã¢â‚¬ËœhonestÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ blogging.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>As I recall Iain picked his friend as No.1, then his other friend (and now business partner) as No.2, then Iain&#8217;s friend at No.2 picked Iain as No.3.</p>
<p>If you want to hail this as having some real meaning as to quality that&#8217;s fine, but to me it looks about as grown up as an infant&#8217;s school playground.</p>
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		<title>By: Guano</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/comment-page-1/#comment-25400</link>
		<dc:creator>Guano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/#comment-25400</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s good to see that someone has at last pointed out that Guido Fawkes&#039; blog is a load of twaddle. There is indeed a danger that Guido&#039;s illogical arguments and childish jokes become, in the public mind, what blogging is all about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s good to see that someone has at last pointed out that Guido Fawkes&#8217; blog is a load of twaddle. There is indeed a danger that Guido&#8217;s illogical arguments and childish jokes become, in the public mind, what blogging is all about.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Ireland</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/comment-page-1/#comment-25399</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Ireland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/#comment-25399</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not just Iain Dale.

Not a Conspiracy Theory, Just a Natural By-Product of Economics:

There&#039;s a whole group selling a certain advertising product to organisations that sell ideas to politicians and companies with surprising efficiency... and the blog that&#039;s waved in front of everyone&#039;s faces is deeply, deeply flawed on a fundamental basis (and I mean flawed in such a way that is deeply unsettling before you even think about taking into account the intentions or character of the person behind it).

There is also more than one company out there selling &#039;blogs&#039; that are little more than content management systems. Others offer even easier easy-outs that - in the end - cheat both MPs and their constituents.

Damn it, we started off so *well*. We were way ahead of the Americans; we had elected officials having actual conversations with voters. Then, there were people then who feared blogging, but for a very good reason; they wouldn&#039;t get away with their usual bullshit.

For many, many reasons, recently it&#039;s deteriorated to a point where almost everyone is afraid of it... except for the total bullshitters, as they now know (or &#039;think&#039;, if you&#039;re an optimist) that they can shut debates down and push certain campaigns, rumours or spin forward with nothing but a bunch of sock-puppets ... and no-one is going to bat a fucking eyelid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not just Iain Dale.</p>
<p>Not a Conspiracy Theory, Just a Natural By-Product of Economics:</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a whole group selling a certain advertising product to organisations that sell ideas to politicians and companies with surprising efficiency&#8230; and the blog that&#8217;s waved in front of everyone&#8217;s faces is deeply, deeply flawed on a fundamental basis (and I mean flawed in such a way that is deeply unsettling before you even think about taking into account the intentions or character of the person behind it).</p>
<p>There is also more than one company out there selling &#8216;blogs&#8217; that are little more than content management systems. Others offer even easier easy-outs that &#8211; in the end &#8211; cheat both MPs and their constituents.</p>
<p>Damn it, we started off so *well*. We were way ahead of the Americans; we had elected officials having actual conversations with voters. Then, there were people then who feared blogging, but for a very good reason; they wouldn&#8217;t get away with their usual bullshit.</p>
<p>For many, many reasons, recently it&#8217;s deteriorated to a point where almost everyone is afraid of it&#8230; except for the total bullshitters, as they now know (or &#8216;think&#8217;, if you&#8217;re an optimist) that they can shut debates down and push certain campaigns, rumours or spin forward with nothing but a bunch of sock-puppets &#8230; and no-one is going to bat a fucking eyelid.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/comment-page-1/#comment-25396</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 20:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2007/01/15/off-the-artistic-role-call/#comment-25396</guid>
		<description>Sorry the 18-20th words of my post should read &quot;sub-tabloid twaddle&quot;.

If you are in doubt about Guido&#039;s kookiness listen to the podcast (the one with Sian of the Green Party) where he suggests we might want an independent nuclear deterrent to deal with France...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry the 18-20th words of my post should read &#8220;sub-tabloid twaddle&#8221;.</p>
<p>If you are in doubt about Guido&#8217;s kookiness listen to the podcast (the one with Sian of the Green Party) where he suggests we might want an independent nuclear deterrent to deal with France&#8230;</p>
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