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	<title>Comments on: The little boy that democracy forgot</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/</link>
	<description>The weblog of Brighton-based writer Justin McKeating</description>
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		<title>By: Mike Power</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/comment-page-1/#comment-38098</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Power</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/#comment-38098</guid>
		<description>Justin, I agree that any chance of a meaningful debate with the candidates is to be welcomed. If Nader made it clear that this was his motivation, and recommended his progressive supporters to vote for a particular candidate when the time came I&#039;d have no real problem with what he&#039;s doing. But this isn&#039;t 2000. The country is a very different place and the political imperatives are very different also. 

When a &#039;progressive&#039; voter, whether a sometime Democrat supporter, a Green or a left-leaning libertarian stands in that voting booth pondering eight years of Republican misrule he/she has a very simple choice: to try and end the neo-con farce or not. Only a vote for the Democrat candidate, Obama, Clinton or Mickey Mouse come to that, has any chance of achieving that and, at this stage in American history, any &#039;progressive&#039; who isn&#039;t working towards ousting the Republicans at all costs is deeply suspect and deserves any derision and  opprobrium aimed aimed at them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin, I agree that any chance of a meaningful debate with the candidates is to be welcomed. If Nader made it clear that this was his motivation, and recommended his progressive supporters to vote for a particular candidate when the time came I&#8217;d have no real problem with what he&#8217;s doing. But this isn&#8217;t 2000. The country is a very different place and the political imperatives are very different also. </p>
<p>When a &#8216;progressive&#8217; voter, whether a sometime Democrat supporter, a Green or a left-leaning libertarian stands in that voting booth pondering eight years of Republican misrule he/she has a very simple choice: to try and end the neo-con farce or not. Only a vote for the Democrat candidate, Obama, Clinton or Mickey Mouse come to that, has any chance of achieving that and, at this stage in American history, any &#8216;progressive&#8217; who isn&#8217;t working towards ousting the Republicans at all costs is deeply suspect and deserves any derision and  opprobrium aimed aimed at them.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/comment-page-1/#comment-38091</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/#comment-38091</guid>
		<description>Good point about the purple fingers, Mike. It&#039;s true that my argument doesn&#039;t include any qualitative judgement on whether Nader&#039;s the man on this occasion. 

But I stand by the principle and if he gets within spitting distance of a debate with the other candidates, I&#039;d say that that would be A Good Thing. 

In a closely aligned two party system like America there&#039;s always a tacit omerta on certain issues (see also the UK). Somebody needs to have a crack at it and Nader&#039;s the only guy to stand up and say so. In that sense, Nader&#039;s providing an important service whether anybody votes for him or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point about the purple fingers, Mike. It&#8217;s true that my argument doesn&#8217;t include any qualitative judgement on whether Nader&#8217;s the man on this occasion. </p>
<p>But I stand by the principle and if he gets within spitting distance of a debate with the other candidates, I&#8217;d say that that would be A Good Thing. </p>
<p>In a closely aligned two party system like America there&#8217;s always a tacit omerta on certain issues (see also the UK). Somebody needs to have a crack at it and Nader&#8217;s the only guy to stand up and say so. In that sense, Nader&#8217;s providing an important service whether anybody votes for him or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/comment-page-1/#comment-38090</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/#comment-38090</guid>
		<description>Obama on Nader:

“Ralph Nader’s view is, unless it’s Ralph Nader, then you’re not tough enough on any of these issues,” he said. “He thought there was no difference between Al Gore and George Bush. I think eight years later, people realize Ralph doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama on Nader:</p>
<p>“Ralph Nader’s view is, unless it’s Ralph Nader, then you’re not tough enough on any of these issues,” he said. “He thought there was no difference between Al Gore and George Bush. I think eight years later, people realize Ralph doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Power</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/comment-page-1/#comment-38089</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Power</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 21:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/#comment-38089</guid>
		<description>Whatever Nader achieved in 2000 there was nothing positive or &#039;progressive&#039;  in it that&#039;s for sure. And a vote for Nader will achieve nothing positive or progressive this time either. But he has a right to stand and  people have a right to vote for him. So democracy can breath easy :) Phew!  But democracy requires more than the opportunity to put a cross on a ballot paper - see purple fingered peope, Iraq. The cross has to have at least some chance of achieving something.  

He&#039;s no progressive. He believes there is nothing to choose between the Democrats and Republicans therefore he has no real interest in the outcome of this election.  &#039;Little boy&#039; is an apt description for this faded, irrelevant party-pooper who wants his Screaming Lord Sutch moment again. But he&#039;s a busted flush. He&#039;ll have no impact whatsoever this time around. He&#039;ll just be an annoying prick for a few months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever Nader achieved in 2000 there was nothing positive or &#8216;progressive&#8217;  in it that&#8217;s for sure. And a vote for Nader will achieve nothing positive or progressive this time either. But he has a right to stand and  people have a right to vote for him. So democracy can breath easy <img src='http://www.chickyog.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Phew!  But democracy requires more than the opportunity to put a cross on a ballot paper &#8211; see purple fingered peope, Iraq. The cross has to have at least some chance of achieving something.  </p>
<p>He&#8217;s no progressive. He believes there is nothing to choose between the Democrats and Republicans therefore he has no real interest in the outcome of this election.  &#8216;Little boy&#8217; is an apt description for this faded, irrelevant party-pooper who wants his Screaming Lord Sutch moment again. But he&#8217;s a busted flush. He&#8217;ll have no impact whatsoever this time around. He&#8217;ll just be an annoying prick for a few months.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Hannay</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/comment-page-1/#comment-38086</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Hannay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/#comment-38086</guid>
		<description>Dearie dearie me! - has no one been paying attention? Nader didn`t lose Gore the election in 2000; the Republicans stole it with a spectrum of cheats and ballot rigging which the Dems didn`t have the spine to stand up to and fight against. In Florida, Gore won - Greg Palast proved it, and in 2004 in Ohio, Kerry also won but wouldn`t go mano-a-mano with the Busheviks. Nader`s small percentage of the vote would not have mattered a damn if the Democrats had run exit polls and stuck to their guns when the fixed votes began to show. And we might not be in the manure we`re in now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dearie dearie me! &#8211; has no one been paying attention? Nader didn`t lose Gore the election in 2000; the Republicans stole it with a spectrum of cheats and ballot rigging which the Dems didn`t have the spine to stand up to and fight against. In Florida, Gore won &#8211; Greg Palast proved it, and in 2004 in Ohio, Kerry also won but wouldn`t go mano-a-mano with the Busheviks. Nader`s small percentage of the vote would not have mattered a damn if the Democrats had run exit polls and stuck to their guns when the fixed votes began to show. And we might not be in the manure we`re in now.</p>
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		<title>By: Cloned Poster</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/comment-page-1/#comment-38081</link>
		<dc:creator>Cloned Poster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/#comment-38081</guid>
		<description>Interesting that Hilary is doing the &quot;moaning&quot;. She feels it could affect her if she got the nomination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that Hilary is doing the &#8220;moaning&#8221;. She feels it could affect her if she got the nomination.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Power</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/comment-page-1/#comment-38080</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Power</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/#comment-38080</guid>
		<description>I did have quite a lot to say about this post but, in the end, I think I&#039;ll leave it at: &quot;What Katherine said&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did have quite a lot to say about this post but, in the end, I think I&#8217;ll leave it at: &#8220;What Katherine said&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/comment-page-1/#comment-38079</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/#comment-38079</guid>
		<description>I agree with most of the above.  However, I&#039;ve been reading a lot of bloggers and commenters who have voted for him in the past saying; sorry, not this time.  He hasn&#039;t, by all accounts, done anything much since 2004 and done jack-shit to help the grassroots growth of a third party in the US so many people are just wondering why he is bothering beyond self-aggrandisement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of the above.  However, I&#8217;ve been reading a lot of bloggers and commenters who have voted for him in the past saying; sorry, not this time.  He hasn&#8217;t, by all accounts, done anything much since 2004 and done jack-shit to help the grassroots growth of a third party in the US so many people are just wondering why he is bothering beyond self-aggrandisement.</p>
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		<title>By: Jherad</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/comment-page-1/#comment-38077</link>
		<dc:creator>Jherad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/#comment-38077</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m counting on Nader to keep Obama honest (ie from swinging too far to the right in the run for republican votes), if/when he gets the nomination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m counting on Nader to keep Obama honest (ie from swinging too far to the right in the run for republican votes), if/when he gets the nomination.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/comment-page-1/#comment-38075</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/2008/02/25/the-little-boy-that-democracy-forgot/#comment-38075</guid>
		<description>Well, I don&#039;t think anyone believes he&#039;d actually win but he&#039;d bring subjects to the debates that the other candidates might like to avoid. Aside from issues of splitting the vote, you can see why the Democrats might not want him to run.

It&#039;s like &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6652651.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;John McDonnell running against Gordon Brown&lt;/a&gt; for the Labour leadership. Brown couldn&#039;t afford to let McDonnell into the contest - not because he was afraid McDonnell might win but because the underdog might make him publicly debate issues Brown would rather were left buried.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I don&#8217;t think anyone believes he&#8217;d actually win but he&#8217;d bring subjects to the debates that the other candidates might like to avoid. Aside from issues of splitting the vote, you can see why the Democrats might not want him to run.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6652651.stm">John McDonnell running against Gordon Brown</a> for the Labour leadership. Brown couldn&#8217;t afford to let McDonnell into the contest &#8211; not because he was afraid McDonnell might win but because the underdog might make him publicly debate issues Brown would rather were left buried.</p>
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