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	<title>Comments on: Check on delivery</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.chickyog.net/2008/07/21/check-on-delivery/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/07/21/check-on-delivery/</link>
	<description>The weblog of Brighton-based writer Justin McKeating</description>
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		<title>By: BritSwedeGuy</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/07/21/check-on-delivery/comment-page-1/#comment-41135</link>
		<dc:creator>BritSwedeGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/?p=2631#comment-41135</guid>
		<description>There must be a problem with the audio, all I hear is the sound of Brown sucking Israeli cock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There must be a problem with the audio, all I hear is the sound of Brown sucking Israeli cock.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/07/21/check-on-delivery/comment-page-1/#comment-41118</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/?p=2631#comment-41118</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t get me wrong, David, I&#039;m not about to take as gospel the intergrity of the Irainian government. It&#039;s just that if we&#039;re going to rerun 2003, I&#039;d like the facts from our governments to be just that - facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, David, I&#8217;m not about to take as gospel the intergrity of the Irainian government. It&#8217;s just that if we&#8217;re going to rerun 2003, I&#8217;d like the facts from our governments to be just that &#8211; facts.</p>
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		<title>By: David Boothroyd</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/07/21/check-on-delivery/comment-page-1/#comment-41113</link>
		<dc:creator>David Boothroyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/?p=2631#comment-41113</guid>
		<description>There is a much more complicated tale than your noticing of a single word difference seems to make. The first simple point to make is this: Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which means that it has undertaken not to develop nuclear weapons, but that it has an absolute right to a civil nuclear energy programme. (Israel has not signed so is not prohibited from having nuclear weapons)

The only problem with Iran&#039;s nuclear enrichment attempts could come if there is a prospect that Iran is lying when it says they are for nuclear energy. Here&#039;s the problem: there is not merely a prospect, but a virtual certainty, that they are lying. It&#039;s not that Iran is not building any nuclear power stations (it is, and the first goes into energy production very soon). 

Not only has Iran been constantly obstructive to the IAEA (which has never stopped civil nuclear power projects), IAEA inspectors found documents in Iranian nuclear research facilities that try to solve the problem of fashioning Uranium into a sphere, a problem which never occurs in nuclear power plants but must be solved in order to make a working bomb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a much more complicated tale than your noticing of a single word difference seems to make. The first simple point to make is this: Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which means that it has undertaken not to develop nuclear weapons, but that it has an absolute right to a civil nuclear energy programme. (Israel has not signed so is not prohibited from having nuclear weapons)</p>
<p>The only problem with Iran&#8217;s nuclear enrichment attempts could come if there is a prospect that Iran is lying when it says they are for nuclear energy. Here&#8217;s the problem: there is not merely a prospect, but a virtual certainty, that they are lying. It&#8217;s not that Iran is not building any nuclear power stations (it is, and the first goes into energy production very soon). </p>
<p>Not only has Iran been constantly obstructive to the IAEA (which has never stopped civil nuclear power projects), IAEA inspectors found documents in Iranian nuclear research facilities that try to solve the problem of fashioning Uranium into a sphere, a problem which never occurs in nuclear power plants but must be solved in order to make a working bomb.</p>
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		<title>By: Quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/07/21/check-on-delivery/comment-page-1/#comment-41101</link>
		<dc:creator>Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/?p=2631#comment-41101</guid>
		<description>Oh for crying out loud. Right; this is my final word on the matter.

Firstly, in my initial comment I merely pointed out that Gordon Brown’s Freudian slip, for such I think it was, was not in my opinion all that significant, as when the UK government diplomatically refers to Iran’s “nuclear programme” what they really mean is what they believe there to be a “nuclear weapons programme”, and so I don’t believe that Gordon Brown actually saying what his government actually thinks is in itself all that significant. I wasn’t trying to endorse the UK government’s position, this was just my world weary way of saying that nothing has changed with this statement.

In my second comment in responding to Justin I merely presented evidence to show that the NIE report was not to my mind an exoneration of the Iranian position as it has often been painted, and then reiterated my initial point. That is all. I could have made my life easier by just nodding along, but it’s not in my nature. 

I don’t have any evidence to show that Iran has a nuclear weapons programme, but that’s fine, because I am alleging no such thing. Suspicious? Yes; while the IAEA still has a job to do, while they report questions unanswered, while Iran is not 100% compliant and transparent and until the IAEA give Iran a clean bill of health. While I may admire others’ touching faith in the word of the Iranian government I personally don’t know how you cannot be to some degree suspicious; lack of evidence does not mean lack of suspicions. And I am, in general, something of a cynic, which in practice means I tend not to take at face value the pronouncements of religious and/or political leaders, be they from the UK, US, Iran or anywhere else. That is just my way but others are entitled to their credulity, it bothers me not.

End of message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh for crying out loud. Right; this is my final word on the matter.</p>
<p>Firstly, in my initial comment I merely pointed out that Gordon Brown’s Freudian slip, for such I think it was, was not in my opinion all that significant, as when the UK government diplomatically refers to Iran’s “nuclear programme” what they really mean is what they believe there to be a “nuclear weapons programme”, and so I don’t believe that Gordon Brown actually saying what his government actually thinks is in itself all that significant. I wasn’t trying to endorse the UK government’s position, this was just my world weary way of saying that nothing has changed with this statement.</p>
<p>In my second comment in responding to Justin I merely presented evidence to show that the NIE report was not to my mind an exoneration of the Iranian position as it has often been painted, and then reiterated my initial point. That is all. I could have made my life easier by just nodding along, but it’s not in my nature. </p>
<p>I don’t have any evidence to show that Iran has a nuclear weapons programme, but that’s fine, because I am alleging no such thing. Suspicious? Yes; while the IAEA still has a job to do, while they report questions unanswered, while Iran is not 100% compliant and transparent and until the IAEA give Iran a clean bill of health. While I may admire others’ touching faith in the word of the Iranian government I personally don’t know how you cannot be to some degree suspicious; lack of evidence does not mean lack of suspicions. And I am, in general, something of a cynic, which in practice means I tend not to take at face value the pronouncements of religious and/or political leaders, be they from the UK, US, Iran or anywhere else. That is just my way but others are entitled to their credulity, it bothers me not.</p>
<p>End of message.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron F</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/07/21/check-on-delivery/comment-page-1/#comment-41091</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/?p=2631#comment-41091</guid>
		<description>Justin - my apologies.

I&#039;m too stupid to notice that a comment authors name appears before the comment, not after.

When I&#039;ve returned from wiping egg off my face perhaps Quinn could address the point?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin &#8211; my apologies.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m too stupid to notice that a comment authors name appears before the comment, not after.</p>
<p>When I&#8217;ve returned from wiping egg off my face perhaps Quinn could address the point?</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/07/21/check-on-delivery/comment-page-1/#comment-41088</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/?p=2631#comment-41088</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not me who said it. I&#039;ve noted before that an Iranian bomb has been declared unislamic by the clerics. It&#039;s me who&#039;s asking for proof of such suspicions not advocating them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not me who said it. I&#8217;ve noted before that an Iranian bomb has been declared unislamic by the clerics. It&#8217;s me who&#8217;s asking for proof of such suspicions not advocating them.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron F</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/07/21/check-on-delivery/comment-page-1/#comment-41086</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/?p=2631#comment-41086</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think legitimate suspicions abound.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s interesting, given that neither the U.S. spooks nor the IAEA have found any evidence of such a weapons program.

Especially so, given Ayatollah Khamenei&#039;s decree forbidding the production, stockpiling or use of nuclear weapons and Ayatollah Kashani saying the same thing.

Perhaps Justin can explain why he thinks the words of the Supreme Leader and an Ayatollah actually count for nothing in a theocracy, and spell out the basis for his numerous &quot;legitimate suspicions&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think legitimate suspicions abound.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s interesting, given that neither the U.S. spooks nor the IAEA have found any evidence of such a weapons program.</p>
<p>Especially so, given Ayatollah Khamenei&#8217;s decree forbidding the production, stockpiling or use of nuclear weapons and Ayatollah Kashani saying the same thing.</p>
<p>Perhaps Justin can explain why he thinks the words of the Supreme Leader and an Ayatollah actually count for nothing in a theocracy, and spell out the basis for his numerous &#8220;legitimate suspicions&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/07/21/check-on-delivery/comment-page-1/#comment-41078</link>
		<dc:creator>Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/?p=2631#comment-41078</guid>
		<description>No proof, but as we&#039;re clearly talking at cross purposes, forget it.

Quinn&#039;s latest blog post... &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.obscurer.co.uk/2008/07/physical-graffiti.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Physical Graffiti&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No proof, but as we&#8217;re clearly talking at cross purposes, forget it.</p>
<p>Quinn&#8217;s latest blog post&#8230; <a href="http://www.obscurer.co.uk/2008/07/physical-graffiti.html">Physical Graffiti</a></p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/07/21/check-on-delivery/comment-page-1/#comment-41076</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/?p=2631#comment-41076</guid>
		<description>And I&#039;ll say it again: where&#039;s the proof?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I&#8217;ll say it again: where&#8217;s the proof?</p>
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		<title>By: Quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.chickyog.net/2008/07/21/check-on-delivery/comment-page-1/#comment-41075</link>
		<dc:creator>Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chickyog.net/?p=2631#comment-41075</guid>
		<description>Well,

&lt;b&gt;“We judge with high confidence that in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program;”&lt;/b&gt;

But

&lt;b&gt;“We judge with high confidence that the halt lasted at least several years (because of intelligence gaps discussed elsewhere in the Estimate, however, DOE and the NIC assess with only moderate confidence that the halt in those activities represents a halt to Iran’s entire nuclear weapons program.)”&lt;/b&gt;

And 

&lt;b&gt;“We assess with moderate confidence Tehran had not restarted its nuclear weapons as of mid-2007, but we do not know whether it currently intends to develop nuclear weapons.”&lt;/b&gt;

So I think that the NIC report is a less ringing endorsement than is often assumed, and I think legitimate suspicions abound. But that doesn’t affect my intended point; that while Brown meant to &lt;i&gt;say&lt;/i&gt; “nuclear programme”, he always meant to &lt;i&gt;mean&lt;/i&gt; “nuclear weapons programme”.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well,</p>
<p><b>“We judge with high confidence that in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program;”</b></p>
<p>But</p>
<p><b>“We judge with high confidence that the halt lasted at least several years (because of intelligence gaps discussed elsewhere in the Estimate, however, DOE and the NIC assess with only moderate confidence that the halt in those activities represents a halt to Iran’s entire nuclear weapons program.)”</b></p>
<p>And </p>
<p><b>“We assess with moderate confidence Tehran had not restarted its nuclear weapons as of mid-2007, but we do not know whether it currently intends to develop nuclear weapons.”</b></p>
<p>So I think that the NIC report is a less ringing endorsement than is often assumed, and I think legitimate suspicions abound. But that doesn’t affect my intended point; that while Brown meant to <i>say</i> “nuclear programme”, he always meant to <i>mean</i> “nuclear weapons programme”.</p>
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