Depends what’s meant by “reasonable disussion of hypotheses”

I’m not convinced, for example, that last weeks banner headlines proclaiming the terrorist attacks in India were carried out by people from within the British Asians/British Muslims community would be viewed as “reasonable disussion of hypotheses” by those within those communities in the UK.

By the same token I don’t recall the same kind of “reasonable disussion of hypotheses” about the motives of those doing the leaking when New Labour were in opposition during the 1990’s.

Perhaps there is more cynicism about these days. Or could it be deemed “reasonable disussion of hypotheses” to speculate that this is just spin and double standards?

Hang on though, that’s a principle that applies to cases in court. It doesn’t prevent people being arrested or being questioned by police and nor does it prevent people engaging in reasonable disussion of hypotheses.

I’ve seen no evidence that the suspicions were so

It’s a fair point but it’s also fair to observe that it is a possible explanation for the police action and one which we’re not at the moment in a position to judge.

However, the same argument and point applies equally to the current situation. At present, like the premature headlines of last week over some of the terrorists in India supposadly being from Bradford, Leeds & Hartlepool etc., there is lot of if’s buts and maybe’s regarding Mick’s suspicions. I’ve seen no evidence that the suspicions were so – only speculation which anyone can indulge in much like the NotW.

At present the best that can be said is that such suspicions may be true and then again they may not. Frankly I don’t give a shit whether Green is a tory or a monster raving looney – the principle of innocent until proved guilty applies to everyone or it applies to no one.

As is the case of Asians getting their doors kicked in or citizens (some of whom may well be Asians who have their door kicked in) correspondence to their Parliamentary Representarive bieng taken from their MP’s office by anti-terrorist police.

“Well, Dave, saying that “the doors of Asian families are not currently being knocked down on the behest of a Conservative Party in Government” comes as close as dammit to saying that the Government are initiating the action against green”

That’s bullshit Bob and you know it. All it says it whats on the tin – that its not the bloody tory party who are in government who have the reins of power and who are setting the tone and framework of authoritarianism that leads to the doors of Asians being kicked down; children of immigrants being held in detention etc.

Seems to me the problem here is you’ve forgotten this site is not your blog and that you seem to think this is all about you and what you’ve said. Try reading the blog. You’ll find that there are not only other aspects to the argument in what Justin has written which you have not touched on but also links to “others” who themselves have links to “others” making these sort of arguments. You only got a mention in passing. There’s no call for you letting it go to your head.

And you know very well it’s not about whether Green (the individual) can be arrested or not. It could have been any representative of the citizanry in parliament. Are you seriously trying to argue that if the police had arrested Robin Cook, Gordon Brown or some other Labour Party shadow representative over all those leaks in the 1990’s you would not be raising your voice about the “principle” of what was happening?

Or that you would be criticising others in the Labour Party who raised their voices in critcism if that had occured?

As for the point about “left” and “centre” complainers I have confess that I’ve always taken the Marxist line that I would never join a club (gang) who would accept me as a member. Sticking such simplistic labels on people does not represent an argument.

ejh,

You forgot a few other gems you did not invent. Like “madasafish”; “inventing plots”; “rot”; and “just bollocks”.

They are currently up for grabs if you want to stake a claim on having not invented them? I’m sure Bob would not mind?

And the point about Mick Fealty’s suspicions being possible is equally applicable to previous leaks when the tory party were in Government.

Eh?

No, just arrested on a beat up.

I don’t like this much – I also don’t much like the present government’s notably hostile approach to whistleblowers – but it’s not some sort of abrogation of the rule of law. It is however a severe and serious departure from normal practice and I very much like to know why it has occurred. It’s possible Mick Fealty’s suspicions are right and that there is something more serious and organised going on of which Mr Green had knowledge. But it’s also possible that there is government interference involved and that they have subsequently lied about this, and if this were so I think this would be a matter serious enough to bring that government down.

But there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with the police arresting people who are believed to have broken the law. Whoever they are.

These are all things Dave Hansell said that I have not invented.