CLASH OF THE TITANS: Bloggerheads vs Chicken Yoghurt, Drunk vs Sober
Hello and welcome to tonight’s debate.
Tim Ireland over at Bloggerheads says one must be ultra-cautious when blogging or twittering if one has been drinking…
…why in heaven’s name would you risk getting into a war of words with anyone when in that state, when you put yourself at risk in much the same way that you would in a drunken fistfight?
I say, fair enough when it’s something important, but I’ve had plenty of erudite alcohol-fuelled debates on and off line and come to no harm whatsoever. It’s a world away from jumping in the car and weaving home.
So we’re going to put it to the vote. I reckon I can out-debate Tim after a skinful. He’s going to try to prove me wrong. Tonight, Chicken Yoghurt is going to be fuelled by that fine cerveza Corona Extra. Bloggerheads is going to be fuelled by nothing stronger than Pepsi Max.
The motion we’ll be debating? Who do we judge to be the better Prime Minister, Tony Blair or Gordon Brown? We’ve both got plenty of material to go at it. Feel free to join us.
As I’m hosting this debate/experiment and I decided the topic for discussion, Tim gets to choose which statesman he’d like to bat for and also gets to set out his stall first. Over to Tim…
Posted on March 31st, 2009 at 8:16pm under Blog, bloggers and blogging, New Labour
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• 90 Comments |
You’ll need every advantage you can get, mate. I’ll bat for Tony Blair.
So, you can start by telling me what exactly you think it was that helped Gordon Brown win the last general elec… oh.
Sorry, mate. Your move. Good luck.
Ok, Admin first…
Via Twitter, Ian Appleby asks ‘Point of order: has your skin already been filled or are you starting sober? Is young Mr Hague the benchmark for “drunk,” or what?’ Good point. I will give a running total of imbibes.
Corona Count: 3
Although he was one of the main figures behind the creation of the New Labour brand, it has to be said that he’s managed very well to avoid to close an association with it. Even his spin doctor, Charlie Whelan, was an avuncular salt-of-the-earth type who could only come off best when compared to Blair’s head-kicker, Campbell.
Brown kept clear of the Iraq debacle and beyond writing the cheques for it he can’t be held responsible for the clusterfuck left by his predecessor either in term of the mess on the ground or the damage done to trust in British politics.
And let’s be honest, just his complete lack of Blairite gloss puts him way ahead. His fumbling manner, nervous grin, his just-out-of-bed clothes sense and that thing he does with his mouth. You can’t tell me he’s had any effective media training.
Pepsi Max count: 1
So your opening statement in favour is… he can duck and hide?
I will grant you that he managed to avoid the issue up until about 3 days before the 2005 election, when he was forced to swing in behind Blair and express his support for the venture. And he owns it now.
Also, he’s not as slick as Blair, but if a lack of media training is the only qualification you need to be a good PM, then Paul Staines could walk into No 10 tomorrow.
… *stagger* into No. 10 tomorrow. My bad.
Hang about, are we just arguing for and against Brown or are you going to grit your teeth and say something nice about Tony?!
Corona Count: 4 and a bit.
Right then. Promising to repeal Sections 132 to 138 of Socpa: Brown. Cluster bomb ban: Brown. Tax credits: Brown. Wanting to end child poverty by 2020: Brown. Oveseas aid budget increases: Brown.
And, let’s not forget, the “ZaNu LieBore” meme started when Blair was in office. That’s another -100 to Tony, merely for being in office at the same time as a bunch of halfwit right-wingers libertarians discovered the internet.
My cunning strikethrough disappeared. Curse your lying preview function, McKeating. (And to think, I was on your side…)
The ‘ZaNu LieBore’ meme keeps hundreds if not thouands of young men distracted from potentially fatal levels of self-abuse. It’s a life-saver if nothing else.
You said one greater than the other, comparatively speaking and all, does it matter how we get there?
:O)
Speaking of actually getting somewhere:
So? I promise to fly to Mars and back. Big deal. I’ll assume you want to drop that one.
So we haven’t used any cluster bombs in any of the wars we’ve fought since… oh. I’ll assume you want to drop that one, too, on much the same basis.
A point for you. Well done.
Off to Mars again!
OK, have two points. But only because I’m lazy and ignorant on budget stuff.
Right back at you for three easy points for me:
Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly and Northern Ireland.
Oh, and peace in Northern Ireland. Thought impossible not that long ago. Better make that four points for me, yes?
Ok. Corona Count: 6 (I missed the bottle I had with my tea).
That’s a bit cheap dismissingt the cluster bomb ban. We’ll have to stick with it if things go south with Iran or (fill in name of nation of brown people here).
And hark at you and your ‘Brown’s off to Mars’ with his SOCPA repeal. You did a big victory dance and everything at the time.
Go easy witht he devolution bit. It’s not perfect by any means. Scottish votes for English laws, anybody? Wales, Scotland and NI are on shortish leads. There’s talk of Westminster taking powers back froim Scotland in the SNP digs its heels in and refuses any new nuclear power stations.
At the time, yes, because at that time, he still had plenty of time to get it through Parliament. SOCPA looks set to be inherited by the Tories, and I’m sure they’ll just rush out to repeal it, what with having no agenda of their own and everything.
Tell you what; take your point for cluster bombs, and we’ll call it even
That’s 3 points to you.
As for devolution, it may be limited or imperfect or whatever, but at least it’s in the present, not in the future. Speaking of which…
“There’s talk of Westminster taking powers back froim Scotland”
Oh, there’s *talk*, is there?
Mars again.
I note you’re also skipping peace in Northern Ireland.
So have I got 4 points or are you going to claim it’s only 1, based on what your crystal ball says?
(Once you give me my 4 points that I deserve, can we start a new threadette? It’s going to get awfully narrow here soon, and as Philip has noticed, I do like my elbow room.)
Jesus, I didn’t realsie you were going to keep score. Four point sto you if you insist. I’ll start a new thread down below…
Watch those typos Justin, you’re starting to slurr.
Told you so.
Ready when you are, Barn*… I mean, Justin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXqUhqU7hgM
Maybe that’s what I want you to think…
I’m sure there’s a few things you don;t realsie right now. But how do we know who wins if we don’t keep score?
THAT SCORE BEING:
TIM – 4
JUSTIN – 3
4 -3, eh? Not as hopless as you were expecting, am I?
Re SOCPA
I don’t think that Brown promised to repeal those sectoins.
I’m pretty sure he said to just amend it, i.e. lessen the effect.
You’re both wrong.
I WIN!
(Fuelled by two pints of Old Growler, half a pint of an anonymous free Pilsner, a large scotch, lack of sleep and a public-school education.)
“You’re wrong and I win!”
Wow, it’s almost like Iain Dale is in the room. Spooky…
(Heya, Nosemonkey. Nice to have an old hand in attendance.)
Get on with it.
I raise you two glasses of red wine, a grammar school education *and* a chip on the shoulder. Pshaw!
PS – 8:30? It’s 9:30 by my clock and everyone else’s. The clock on your server is behind the times. Just like a certain PM.
Bugger. Wordpress needs to be manually updated for BST. Hang about…
You’re looking under the hood? Be careful. Alcohol and tools don’t mix.
It’s fixed now. Lager WIN.
I saw you getting too close to the fan belt. Count your fingers.
Gordon Brown is by far the better Prime Minister, as he is highly unlikely to be in office for ten years.
I’ve had a few, so I feel I can join in at random and shout encouragement to all and sundry – preferably whoever is doing the best at whatever point I choose to shout. Also. I may fall asleep randomly then ask to be taken home by whoever wakes me up. Since I love you.
Thanks
This is great.
I’ve had two cocktails and a Bailey’s.
YEAH!
One drunk at a time, please
Baileys is always how I imagine Shane MaGowan’s phlegmn to look. And probably taste.
i gotta stay sober tonight, so if anyone wants’ a lift home later…
*nurses a Kaliber*
Kaliber tastes like cat’s piss. Worse than cat’s piss. Cat’s piss is actually quite nice when properly chilled. If you’re to drink non-alcoholic lager, try Bavaria 0.0% or Cobra Zero. Amstel do a nice zero-alcohol lager too, but I’ve not seen it in the UK.
It was the only non-alcohol beer I could think of. Rather drink lemonade than non-alcohol beer, really.
I onced served someone a Kaliber shandy. WTF is the point in that?
Try try Bavaria 0.0% or Cobra Zero. Seriously. Available in most major supermarkets. Wonderful when ice cold, and a 2x smart move on a hot summer day.
You on a commission or something?
So I’m a maven. Sue me.
What in the name of arse is a ‘maven’?
Wikipedia says a trusted expert in a particular field.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maven
Sainsbury’s own brand one is the nicest I’ve found, though at 0.5% abv it’s low rather than no alcohol. Becks and Bitburger are both pretty good, and becoming more common in pubs now – the vile Kaliber is gradually getting less common, thank god
I’d always recommend blogging when drunk. Better still is commenting on a blog when drunk.
Don’t take it too far or you will become unable to focus on the screen and your comments will be littered with typos.
On the other hand, perhaps Tony is the better Prime Minister because he isn’t Prime Minister any more. This could be more complicated than I thought.
Caffeine, computer fatigue and the desperate need for an excuse not to work.
Oh and forgot to mention: I’ve only had a couple of ales.
I’ll just be a sober bystander tonight…
Ireland’s text on Bloggerheads doesn’t fit into my browser window. What’s the matter with him? Is he afraid?
“Leave ‘im Gav, he’s not worth it…”
Sorry, just trying to add to the overall tone.
Fight! Fight! F…oh, what? It’s over?
Right then. Fresh thread.
Come on Tim, I sense your hearts not in batting for Blair. Go on, I dare you.
But back to Brown…
1. He’s foregone his Prime Minister’s pension until he’s 65. All future Prime Ministers will have to do the same.
2. Temp workers get same rights as permanent workers after three months.
3. Free swimming for the over 60s!
4. Free theatre tickets for young people.
5. Paul Krugman likes his economic recovery plan.
And the child poverty by 2020 bit? It’s legally binding not a mission to MArs.
Freelance consultants such as myself were royally f**ked by IR35. That was Dawn Primarollo, Gordon’s evil henchwoman way back in 1999. Bet you think that should be a point against Gordon, but no, that’s a swift kick in the nads for Tony for letting Brown have such a free reign through 2 parliaments.
Think that makes sense, but 2 large Laphroigs, 1 Ledaig and a Bladnoch don’t help much…
Oooh, I’m scared. You sound like you’re channeling Iain Dale, FFS.
After fucking up everybody else’s. And all those future PMs are on an insigificant red planet orbiting a small unregarded yellow sun in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the galaxy.
I’ll see you and raise you the minium wage.
And verrucas for everybody!
Yeah, that’ll keep them off the streets. Like they haven’t illegally downloaded all the new releases already.
Blair at least introduced minimum wage (see above) and more police on the streets. Which, let’s face it, really only addresses the people who hang around in streets. Like bored teenagers.
The Page 3 girls though Blair had a huge cock. So what?
Legally binding does not equal possible. Or now.
Ah, but Brown f**ked our pensions on Blair’s watch. Strike against Blair for giving Brown too much freedom and power whilst he played the international statesman.
OK, point to Justin. He’ll need it.
4-all.
What the fuck’s Iain Dale got to do with it? What you bring him up for?
1. If those orbiting prime ministers want their pensions before 65, they’re going to have to repeal the law, aren’t they? PR disasyer.
2. Minimum wag does not equal a living wage. HAsn’t stopped a lot of people having to get more than one job to get by.
3 & 4 – Never heard of bread AND roses?
“PR disasyer.”
Steady with the coronas. But another strike against Blair, put electoral reform in the 1997 manifesto then left the Jenkins Report to gather dust.
1. A single pension, even a handsome one, is a drop in the bucket.
2. So min. wage, no great shakes, but a temp on min. wage having the right to have an extra month of it when sacked is? Please. It’s another drop in the bucket.
3 & 4 -Bread and roses? What happened to circuses?
And if you don’t want me to mention Iain Dale, don’t talk shite like him.
Fuck off ewith the Dale comparisons, eh?
Never heard ‘Hearts starve as well as bodies; give us bread, but give us roses!’?
All these drops oin the bucket as you put it, all add up to something.
We’re level on 4-all, so you can stop moaning like him, too.
Back on topic, you’ll need more than a few classical quotations and a few drops to fill that bucket.
What else have you got?
I’m not moaning. What else have you got? I’ve made all the running.
Because, all sins aside, Gordon Brown has a lonnng way to go before he equals Tony Blair for achievements. Keep running. And stop moaning. I get enough of that at you-know-who’s place.
I’m not moaning. I’ve been all over the shop loooking for stuff about Gordon bastard Brown and you’ve just been pulling stuff off the top of your head and out of your arse. And i’m bored with the iain Dale shit.
That hard to find, is it? Time to concede, perhaps.
“I’m not moaning. What else have you got? I’ve made all the running.”
Cue Tim with an “I’m not your researcher” response?
Hahahahahaha!
Dont you start. It’s bad enough with him banging on about Dale non-stop.
Psst! I’m over here, Just.
TBH, if you knew the details of the stunt he pulled after Jenvey’s paedo-smear, you’d be going on about him non-stop too.
But let’s get back to your concession speech…
Oh hwere go. Shit or get off the pot Tim. Whats the deal with Dale.
Oh, FFS.
Look, I’m sick of talking around it. Let me just send you a copy of his bullshit excuse.
But it’s time to call it quits tonight, I think. We’re even at 4-all, but the point is proven.
What point? 4-all and I’ve had a few beers – that should count as a win in anybody’s book.
Do I want to get into all thuis Dale thing?
You’ll see.
Email sent.
And you lost. I was just being generous.
How the fuck did I lose?
Now, now folks. Let’s all group hug and be friendly like.
What else have you got?
Fat fingers by the looks of the spellings.
Nah, that’s Corona fingers…
Classical? Well Oppenheim’s poem is a good tribute to the Wobblies and Feminists, but not really a classic. Just a bit pretentious. And though the song derived from the poem is nice enough performed by Judy Collins, John Denver covered it too.
There McKeating, that’ll teach you to ignore my comments.
Actually I never read it. I sued to go to the pub of the same name in Clapham.
And Easy tiger, I wasn’t ignoring you.
Ah the “Thirst amongst equals” place run by the Workers Beer Co. Used to sell good beer way back when I was last in there.
Ignoring comments, you say?
Sod off.
Heh. Steady on. We’re all friends here.
Brown’s a long history of being incapable of standing up and fighting for his position. 1992 – bottled it when Smith became leader; 1994 – bottled it and let Blair become leader. No stomach for hard battles, nightmare trait in a PM.
Cue a very short conversation about confidence and its role in the recession. Blair could have bullshitted our way out of this mess by now, I’m sure. He certainly wouldn’t be stumbling over any lines about being a superhero.
Yeah, but then at least Gordon made it into Paul Cornell’s Captain Britain and MI-13 comic series, albeit not as a superhero.
The fact that Brown couldn’t even make himself look good after that monumental turd had been at the controls for a decade speaks volumes. That said, there’s really only one test:
There they both are. And you’ve only got one egg.
Easy isn’t it? The only way Brown gets hit is if you’re a bad shot.
“There they both are. And you’ve only got one egg.”
Pray it’s a double yolk? Whisk it up, divide in two and throw at both? Use it to grow a culture of virulent salmonella then infect both? Life presents us with these challenges, but there are always options.
this is the best moment in blogging *ever*. and Justin clearly wins by holding his own despite being hammerised.
disappointed the daft ‘brown stole our pensions’ meme went unchallenged. no, he didn’t: demographics did. the transfer of dividend relief to corporation tax cuts is entirely irrelevant.
(2 double babencourt 5*s. may check in later after more…)
Also, companies were allowed to take the “surplus” out of pension funds. Which turned out not to have been a surplus at all.
One of the few advantages of a defined contribution scheme is that the money in your fund definitely belongs to you and won’t be stolen by your employer.
4 cans of special brew
4 cans of stella
and I can still see this has more relevance than any debate in the comments of *a certain persons* blog
I’m marking this a draw
* this may have been posted whilst pisst
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